I work in health care, as it is..it sucks. have also been in a situation where I had to watch a love one die because we had no health insurance..I long for socialized medicine, it would have to be better then the current money hungry system
Two choices…bankrupt yourself in the US for healthcare or die waiting for it in Canada…there has got to be some kind of midle road somewhere that makes healthcare both affordable AND accessable.I just havent heard anyone come up with that solution yet.
What a steaming load of propaganda. Where is the Ontario government’s side in this? There’s more to the story than what this guy is presenting but we don’t hear it. Furthermore, he’s not even Canadian. He’s speaking of a topic that he doesn’t know about fully other than some hearsay or possibly by reading pamphlets or something. Believe what you want but don’t just take this dude’s word for it.
Here’s the problem with socialized medicine. Ask Hawaii. It cost too much and they had to shut theirs down within several months because costs were breaking the bank. People who had health insurance dropped theirs, and companies who were providing health insurance packages dropped them too. Government needs to get OUT of the business of health care and let the private sector fix it. Once the free market is at work, prices will come down drastically!
This is what is in store for all of us in the United States. Where will these poor people go then? I can afford to go to Panama where all the doctors are going. Where will you be able to go? The US is about choice, not socialism. If you like Canada’s system then GO THERE, but don’t ruin our country!
Thank you for the dignity. You are human beings. Socialism is capitalism for government employees. They should not be unionized as they are already a part of the power. The nurses union should not have control of the university openings for nursing, as they do. It is time for women to wake up and protect their families, this includes their husbands. Women, stop taking the government handout and start taking your husbands love. He is your protector. Nurses, stop chatting and get to work.
this whole video is nothing but an advertisement for “timely medical alternatives”, who’s entire job is to get quotes from American health care facilities and enjoys a handsome commission on both ends. This equates to exploiting desperate people. Where I live, I got an MRI within 8 hours, and I only had 1 fluke migraine, no history of or likelihood of cancers, and I’m under 30. There are MANY provinces with plenty of resources available and the paperwork only takes a long time if you avoid it.
Freedom has limits even the US. If you factor in health insurance premiums, middle class CDNs pay the same taxes as middle class US citizens. Both countires have waiting lists. As far as cherry picking, it’s clear this Director does. I on the otherhand, present the other side providing all the FACTS, not PROPAGANDA. Your right it is a debatable issue BUT it is important for all the FACTS to be presented and then for the people to decide. As at Nov 4, It appears the US has made it’s decision.
If my kool-aid results in freedom, prosperity and choice rather than your kool-aid that results in loss of freedom, taxes and waiting lists, order me boxes in bulk.
Everyone cherry picks, yourself included. As I said before, it comes down to ideology and priorities. As for me, I proudly stand on the side of the free market that has produced my very effective system.
You can disagree, and you’ll find some Americans that do too, but it is a very debatable issue.
I guess you have a different understanding of what the “truth” is. When someone makes a statement that is not the actual state of the matter, that is a lie, NOT TRUTH. This is what the Director does. Furthermore he misleads the viewer by not giving all the events surrounding this individual. Therefore, he “cherry picked” the information to give a slanted and biased view, which by definition is PROPAGANDA. If you think this is all a true story, you’ve really been drinking his kool-aid.
The logical conclusion is that Himmelstein’s numbers are highly debatable. Check this out from factcheck-dot-org: “What is the percentage of total personal bankruptcies caused by health care bills?”
That said, basing an argument for government run healthcare on Himmelstein’s numbers would be like lying about WMDs to scare a nation into war.
I won’t disagree with you on that last statement. US media dominates the world. But telling true stories doesn’t mislead anyone. And I think someone who has lived here every day his entire life would have quite a bit better understanding than one who comes here “every couple of months”.
Again more baseless statements. It is just typical of everything you’ve posted on this thread. My spouse, children are US citizens, I travel to the US once every couple of months and more than half the media in CAN is piped in from the US. So to say that I have a lesser understanding would be a typical statement from a presumptive person. The fact is CDNs do have a better understanding of the US than Amer. have on CAN and this Director takes advantage of this to mislead Americans.
I guess then because you don’t know anyone that isnt bankrupt, the study must be false? Thats being anecdotal. As I have mentioned before the guy in this video could have used the internet and got an MRI in CAN for the same time as it took to get one in Buffalo. For me it was just a matter of days. Again, he admitted that he can’t operate a computer. The Director hides this in the video. Here is a Republican Director showing this guy as a victim when he didnt take personal responsibility.
The use of a subset of someone else’s statistics is valid only if the choice of that subset is justified. In this case it isn’t. In making his argument, Himmelstein never drew any relations between the two numbers quoted by Dranove. Drawing relationships when there isn’t any show poor judgment and method, mistakes that should not appear in a quality research study.
To me the fact that “Myth vs. Fact” was sponsored by health care trade group was nothing more than an interesting note. Likewise the fact that Himmelstein is a liberal does not say anything about the quality of his research. You cannot critique someone’s work based solely on his political belief. Labeling someone “liberal ideologue” does not constitute a valid argument at all.
… subset of statistics doesn’t prove that Dranove’s conclusion is incorrect. If that is the argument, why did Himmelstein use two sets of numbers to make his argument in the first place? Does that render the original study inaccurate? The fact remains that this conclusion can be logically drawn from Himmelstein’s own research.
Himmelstien is a liberal ideologue who’s articles supporting government run health care are common and easy to find. In one article entitled, “Mayhem in the Medical Marketplace” he even goes as far as to mention Halliburton and Blackwater, both entities entirely unrelated to the issue of healthcare, and both common targets of ideological liberals.
Regarding multiplying the numbers together, Dranove states how he did it in his artlcle. Just because the 60% may have come from a …
Myth vs. Fact was funded by a health insurance group. If you find that troublesome, you should love this: The original study (Illness And Injury As Contributors To Bankruptcy) was funded by the Robert Wood Johnson Foundation, which is actively working to expand government’s involvement in health care. 2 of the doctors behind the original study, Himmelstein and Woolhandler co-founded a pro-socialized healthcare organization called “Physicians for a National Health Program”.
CAN and the US both spend 0.1% of their respective GDPs on Pharmaceutical drug development. Thus the fact that the US develops more drugs is due to the size of its economy not the healthcare system. CAN has cheaper drugs due to price controls and centralized/bulk purchasing. If healthcare was so affordable in the US, healthcare bills would not be a leading cause of bankruptcy nor would Obama and McCain both want to reform healthcare to give access to more people. Your points are mindless.
continue.. I am not saying whether Himmelstein is right in his conclusion. I am simply saying the method used by the “Myth vs. Facts” authors is not genuine research. What they do is “cherry picking” – pick things out of context to fit their goal.
For a rebuttal of “Medical Bankruptcy: Myth Versus Fact”, please see “Discounting The Debtors Will Not Make Medical Bankruptcy Disappear” by Himmelstein.
Interesting note: the “Myth vs. Facts” paper was funded by an health insurance trade group.
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Tags: canada, care, health, healthcare, Michael, Moore, politics, Sicko, single-payer, solution
Comments: 25 comments
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4Annie11
May 7th, 2009 at 5:48 am
I work in health care, as it is..it sucks.
have also been in a situation where I had to watch a love one die because we had no health insurance..I long for socialized medicine, it would have to be better then the current money hungry system
timmytyphoon
May 7th, 2009 at 5:48 am
Two choices…bankrupt yourself in the US for healthcare or die waiting for it in Canada…there has got to be some kind of midle road somewhere that makes healthcare both affordable AND accessable.I just havent heard anyone come up with that solution yet.
bigbaray
May 7th, 2009 at 5:48 am
Socialism sucks. How many ways does it have to be proved? The biggest mistake in America can be pointed at one man, A community organizer…..
getonmeandride
May 7th, 2009 at 5:48 am
Obama rules and will take care of us.
themastersb
May 7th, 2009 at 5:48 am
Whoever is narrating the video sounds like a douchebag.
sirReginaldFartsalot
May 7th, 2009 at 5:48 am
What a steaming load of propaganda. Where is the Ontario government’s side in this? There’s more to the story than what this guy is presenting but we don’t hear it. Furthermore, he’s not even Canadian. He’s speaking of a topic that he doesn’t know about fully other than some hearsay or possibly by reading pamphlets or something. Believe what you want but don’t just take this dude’s word for it.
fedupeditor
May 7th, 2009 at 5:48 am
Here’s the problem with socialized medicine. Ask Hawaii. It cost too much and they had to shut theirs down within several months because costs were breaking the bank. People who had health insurance dropped theirs, and companies who were providing health insurance packages dropped them too. Government needs to get OUT of the business of health care and let the private sector fix it. Once the free market is at work, prices will come down drastically!
quinnthology31
May 7th, 2009 at 5:48 am
Our country’s health care system is already ruined, there’s nothing to ruin. No one want’s Canada’s system, we just don’t want OUR system anymore.
fedupeditor
May 7th, 2009 at 5:48 am
This is what is in store for all of us in the United States. Where will these poor people go then? I can afford to go to Panama where all the doctors are going. Where will you be able to go? The US is about choice, not socialism. If you like Canada’s system then GO THERE, but don’t ruin our country!
nesw2
May 7th, 2009 at 5:48 am
Thank you for the dignity. You are human beings. Socialism is capitalism for government employees. They should not be unionized as they are already a part of the power. The nurses union should not have control of the university openings for nursing, as they do. It is time for women to wake up and protect their families, this includes their husbands. Women, stop taking the government handout and start taking your husbands love. He is your protector. Nurses, stop chatting and get to work.
tillo2008
May 7th, 2009 at 5:48 am
this whole video is nothing but an advertisement for “timely medical alternatives”, who’s entire job is to get quotes from American health care facilities and enjoys a handsome commission on both ends. This equates to exploiting desperate people.
Where I live, I got an MRI within 8 hours, and I only had 1 fluke migraine, no history of or likelihood of cancers, and I’m under 30.
There are MANY provinces with plenty of resources available and the paperwork only takes a long time if you avoid it.
KNWTHEFACTS76
May 7th, 2009 at 5:48 am
Freedom has limits even the US. If you factor in health insurance premiums, middle class CDNs pay the same taxes as middle class US citizens. Both countires have waiting lists. As far as cherry picking, it’s clear this Director does. I on the otherhand, present the other side providing all the FACTS, not PROPAGANDA. Your right it is a debatable issue BUT it is important for all the FACTS to be presented and then for the people to decide. As at Nov 4, It appears the US has made it’s decision.
default013
May 7th, 2009 at 5:48 am
If my kool-aid results in freedom, prosperity and choice rather than your kool-aid that results in loss of freedom, taxes and waiting lists, order me boxes in bulk.
Everyone cherry picks, yourself included. As I said before, it comes down to ideology and priorities. As for me, I proudly stand on the side of the free market that has produced my very effective system.
You can disagree, and you’ll find some Americans that do too, but it is a very debatable issue.
KNWTHEFACTS76
May 7th, 2009 at 5:48 am
I guess you have a different understanding of what the “truth” is. When someone makes a statement that is not the actual state of the matter, that is a lie, NOT TRUTH. This is what the Director does. Furthermore he misleads the viewer by not giving all the events surrounding this individual. Therefore, he “cherry picked” the information to give a slanted and biased view, which by definition is PROPAGANDA. If you think this is all a true story, you’ve really been drinking his kool-aid.
default013
May 7th, 2009 at 5:48 am
The logical conclusion is that Himmelstein’s numbers are highly debatable. Check this out from factcheck-dot-org: “What is the percentage of total personal bankruptcies caused by health care bills?”
That said, basing an argument for government run healthcare on Himmelstein’s numbers would be like lying about WMDs to scare a nation into war.
default013
May 7th, 2009 at 5:48 am
I won’t disagree with you on that last statement. US media dominates the world. But telling true stories doesn’t mislead anyone. And I think someone who has lived here every day his entire life would have quite a bit better understanding than one who comes here “every couple of months”.
KNWTHEFACTS76
May 7th, 2009 at 5:48 am
Again more baseless statements. It is just typical of everything you’ve posted on this thread. My spouse, children are US citizens, I travel to the US once every couple of months and more than half the media in CAN is piped in from the US. So to say that I have a lesser understanding would be a typical statement from a presumptive person. The fact is CDNs do have a better understanding of the US than Amer. have on CAN and this Director takes advantage of this to mislead Americans.
KNWTHEFACTS76
May 7th, 2009 at 5:48 am
I guess then because you don’t know anyone that isnt bankrupt, the study must be false? Thats being anecdotal. As I have mentioned before the guy in this video could have used the internet and got an MRI in CAN for the same time as it took to get one in Buffalo. For me it was just a matter of days. Again, he admitted that he can’t operate a computer. The Director hides this in the video. Here is a Republican Director showing this guy as a victim when he didnt take personal responsibility.
angustang
May 7th, 2009 at 5:48 am
The use of a subset of someone else’s statistics is valid only if the choice of that subset is justified. In this case it isn’t.
In making his argument, Himmelstein never drew any relations between the two numbers quoted by Dranove.
Drawing relationships when there isn’t any show poor judgment and method, mistakes that should not appear in a quality research study.
angustang
May 7th, 2009 at 5:48 am
To me the fact that “Myth vs. Fact” was sponsored by health care trade group was nothing more than an interesting note.
Likewise the fact that Himmelstein is a liberal does not say anything about the quality of his research.
You cannot critique someone’s work based solely on his political belief.
Labeling someone “liberal ideologue” does not constitute a valid argument at all.
default013
May 7th, 2009 at 5:48 am
3.
… subset of statistics doesn’t prove that Dranove’s conclusion is incorrect. If that is the argument, why did Himmelstein use two sets of numbers to make his argument in the first place? Does that render the original study inaccurate? The fact remains that this conclusion can be logically drawn from Himmelstein’s own research.
default013
May 7th, 2009 at 5:48 am
2.
Himmelstien is a liberal ideologue who’s articles supporting government run health care are common and easy to find. In one article entitled, “Mayhem in the Medical Marketplace” he even goes as far as to mention Halliburton and Blackwater, both entities entirely unrelated to the issue of healthcare, and both common targets of ideological liberals.
Regarding multiplying the numbers together, Dranove states how he did it in his artlcle. Just because the 60% may have come from a …
default013
May 7th, 2009 at 5:48 am
Myth vs. Fact was funded by a health insurance group. If you find that troublesome, you should love this: The original study (Illness And Injury As Contributors To Bankruptcy) was funded by the Robert Wood Johnson Foundation, which is actively working to expand government’s involvement in health care. 2 of the doctors behind the original study, Himmelstein and Woolhandler co-founded a pro-socialized healthcare organization called “Physicians for a National Health Program”.
KNWTHEFACTS76
May 7th, 2009 at 5:48 am
CAN and the US both spend 0.1% of their respective GDPs on Pharmaceutical drug development. Thus the fact that the US develops more drugs is due to the size of its economy not the healthcare system. CAN has cheaper drugs due to price controls and centralized/bulk purchasing. If healthcare was so affordable in the US, healthcare bills would not be a leading cause of bankruptcy nor would Obama and McCain both want to reform healthcare to give access to more people. Your points are mindless.
angustang
May 7th, 2009 at 5:48 am
continue..
I am not saying whether Himmelstein is right in his conclusion. I am simply saying the method used by the “Myth vs. Facts” authors is not genuine research. What they do is “cherry picking” – pick things out of context to fit their goal.
For a rebuttal of “Medical Bankruptcy: Myth Versus Fact”, please see “Discounting The Debtors Will Not Make Medical Bankruptcy Disappear” by Himmelstein.
Interesting note: the “Myth vs. Facts” paper was funded by an health insurance trade group.
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